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The Norfolk Broads Forum / Fishing / Pike
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Posted By Discussion Topic: Pike

Similar Threads That Might Help :
Pike Fishing in the Northern Broads| Dead Pike| Pike Fishing on the Bure| Help with a pike's size| pike fishing| Pike fishing the right way|

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Dzign
Mar-13-2018 @ 12:18 AM                           Permalink
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A lot of treble hooks only have barbs on one point and this is to hold the baitfish, if you have the right unhooking tackle these modern trebles are a doddle to slip out and correct me if I'm wrong but they are only a size ten usually...

L

BUDGIE
Mar-13-2018 @ 11:26 AM                           Permalink
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Hi all. Sorry I don't come on here like I used to but just got fed up trying to reason with idiots Frown  Idiots who seem to only come on to push their own agendas.

However I was asked to look in on this subject as it (angling wise) is probably the biggest issue we have up here on the Broads. After a somewhat negative start can I just say how good it is to see so many realise that there is indeed a problem with the pike and pike fishing here.

Pike are very much in decline here. This is not just a personal experience (born out of actually being out on the water after them near as dam it every day in the winter) but one now also recognised by the EA. Recently we have been involved with several monitoring and surveying operations with them and they are now looking into it.

Lots of possible/contributing factors such as the ever growing salt incursion issue, predation by otters/poaching and last but by no means least the heavy angling pressure and poor angling practices. Now the majority are happy to rant about otters or poachers, some are clued up enough to understand the salt issue.....but an awful lot just refuse to even acknowledge that anglers themselves may be playing a part in this decline. Irony of this is as anglers we may not have a lot of control over salt, otters or poachers! ...... but we can our own actions.

Two issues really from an angling point of view. First is WHEN we fish for them. I wont go into all the science here (but quite happy to at a later date if people are interested or want to challenge it) but simply fishing for pike when the water temperatures are high (with the resulting low dissolved oxygen levels) is VERY bad news for them. They struggle to recover after expending the energy during the fight and even though with careful nursing they do swim off many (not all) never fully recover and die...totally unknown to the angler but seen by people like us who are out on the water every day. Next and possibly the biggest thing is simply LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. For many the Norfolk Broads are synonymous with pike fishing. People come here to fish from all over...unfortunately so so many just don't know how to! Now I'm not talking so much about catching them as to be honest they are not that hard to catch! what Im on about is being able to catch and return them safely! People have all ready mentioned the equipment needed and while obviously it is the real issue is KNOWING how to use this gear! I get people asking me nigh on every day in the holiday season to come and unhook pike for them. I can kind of understand (but not excuse) when I turn up and they are a match angler whose caught one by mistake or even stuck a bait out to catch the one terrorising his roach! even the holiday maker whose never fished before....but many have all the rods and alarms, even lovely tool rolls with all the correct tools...but just don't know what to do...or as bad are too scared to. Please don't think I'm exaggerating either and if you do come spend a day in the summer with us.

When I was a lad I killed a lot of pike through ignorance, no one knew what to do and you just couldn't find out. These days there's a wealth of knowledge and plenty of people who are more than happy to show you how. If your going top go pike fishing you need to know how to do so safely and best way is to go with someone who know (actually does mind and doesn't just think so!)

I'm not going to get bogged down and bore you anymore as I've wrote enough here but its simple people need to LEARN...if they want to still be catching pike in a few years that is.


Budgie Burgess
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TerryTibbs
Mar-13-2018 @ 12:17 PM                           Permalink
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Budgie is a very well respected Pike Angler with extensive knowledge of predator fishing but I must take exception to his continuation of the "myth" of the dangers of Pike fishing in Summer. Yes you have to be careful with Pike and give them time to recover but you have to do this in Winter as well. O2 depletion is a very complicated matter as the attached link shows.

http://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/parameters/water-quality/dissolved-oxygen/

One very telling line from that report is:-



"The freshwater fish most tolerant to DO levels include fathead minnows and northern pike. Northern pike can survive at dissolved oxygen concentrations as low as 0.1 mg/L for several days, and at 1.5 mg/L for an infinite amount of time ²7. Fathead minnows can survive at 1 mg/L for an extended period with only minimal effects on reproduction and growth."

Pike are fished for elsewhere in the World in much hotter temperatures than we see in this country as seen on the following link which is from Budgies own web site.

http://www.bass-online.co.uk/guided-fishing-trips.html

Dave

if it is to be it is up to me.

BUDGIE
Mar-13-2018 @ 12:34 PM                           Permalink
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Hi Dave hope your well. I'm afraid this is a great example of how the whole "summer piking" issue is very much miss understood due to information being miss interpreted. The information you have linked to is often presented to me....but it shows "survival" levels of DO and NOT the much higher "recovery" levels required. This causes a lot of confusion. I'm afraid I cant link to the relevant scientific papers/research on the subject as it is now all "pay per view" ( The PAC is currently in negotiations to be able to purchase/access for general dissemination) However look up Dr Richard Arlihnghaus's work. He is regarded as the foremost expert on this (and many other freshwater fisheries issues) Despite my experience as a pike angler and my qualifications in both Fisheries Management and Freshwater Biology I always tend to look to people like this for hard facts.
But all this does is explain why we see so many dead pike not confirm that we do! Again please feel free to come spend some time with us and actually experience it. In the summer most of the fish I get called out to deal with are all ready dead by the time I get there simply due to being retained in the oxygen depleted margins.

Budgie Burgess
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This message was edited by BUDGIE on Mar-13-18 @ 12:53 PM

BUDGIE
Mar-13-2018 @ 12:36 PM                           Permalink
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The Pike fishing in Spain is only done when the water temperatures (note water not air) are very low. These are galacial waters fed by snow melt...again another example of miss interpreted information.

Budgie Burgess
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TerryTibbs
Mar-13-2018 @ 1:04 PM                           Permalink
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Wrong Budgie, totally wrong Lake ORELLANA for instance was formed by damming the Guadiana River in the '60's it is not snow or Glacial water fed, the waters are warm, I have fished there for Carp.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadiana

Whaqt is the temperature range on the River Yare for instance?

Dave

if it is to be it is up to me.

TerryTibbs
Mar-13-2018 @ 1:19 PM                           Permalink
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"My trips to Spain always start with a flight to Alicante to meet Gary. Baggage is always maxed out with my favourite baits and additional rig bits, I can never remember what I have stored in Spain so I always take extra bits, just in case! Bait consisted of Poloni Pop ups, wafters and as much shelf live Poloni boilie as I could cram in. I had booked two large bags for this trip. We set off early the next day arriving on the lake by midday a 6 hour drive soon passed as anticipation helped usher me to the destination in no time at all. It was a Friday and it happened to be a bank holiday weekend in Spain so the bass anglers were out on-mass.  We loaded up our boats and set off across the huge bay we had decided to target. The sun was beating down and it was still high 20’s even now in mid-October. The water temp was showing at 21 degrees on the sonar depth finder, which was remarkable for the time of year."

from a well known Carp blogger:-

http://www.bait-tech.com/13886/epic-journeys-into-wild-waters/

Dave

if it is to be it is up to me.

BUDGIE
Mar-13-2018 @ 1:20 PM                           Permalink
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They are fed by snow melt.What is done in Spain has no relevance to the issues on the Broads. Im happy enough to promote Extremadura as I know they only fish in SAFE conditions....and why we only promote them and not others. But why has this YET Again turned into this constant arguing re "Summer Piking" its just part of the issue. You say I'm "perpetuating a myth" and grasping at anything to discredit it it/my opinion/facts I'm giving? One simple question before I once again stop wasting my time on this forum....why when it costs my business many thousands of pounds in lost revenue each summer would I "perpetuate a myth"? I know why people constantly argue against it...and that's simply as its an inconvenient truth that they think will stop them doing something they want to do .... when all the "summer piking" campaign has ever been about is raising peoples awareness of a very real problem. But of course its easier to blame it on otter's and EE's.
However until legislation is brought in and as you mentioned earlier, Policing any such rules its all still just talk.
As I said there are issues we as anglers can act on though so maybe we should concentrate on these.
With all the talk of scrapping the present closed season though I'm worried that this will just add even more pressure to the all ready diminished stocks and as well as them getting hammered in the low DO conditions they will now be hammered all year. My experience of fisheries problems is also that by the time a problem is great enough to be recognised and the official bodies to accept....then its too late to do anything about it. Are we very near or maybe at this stage? I hope not. Only time will tell. Catch you all in another few years. Best of luck.


Budgie Burgess
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This message was edited by BUDGIE on Mar-13-18 @ 1:25 PM

Simondo
Mar-13-2018 @ 2:15 PM                           Permalink
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On another issue if we are taking a stance on Summer Piking or Piking conservation in general (which is a great thing) why are we allowed to target them when they are spawn bound?

"We are very comfortable with the broads describing themselves as a national park"

TerryTibbs
Mar-13-2018 @ 2:17 PM                           Permalink
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Obvious that, it's beacause that is when the fish is at it's heaviest and the reason most Pike Fishing is done in the Winter months IMHO of course.

Dave

if it is to be it is up to me.

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